Ingineers Ramblings

Keep a record of what you said here because you might someday have to eat these words. I don't know what will happen with GM, hadn't heard the slamming of the unions that you have, but if that money gets paid back, as some of the bailouts that Bush did in the fall, what will you say then? That you would prefer all those middle class jobs to have disappeared? Do those guys in the factories really make a lot more than you do? If we lose our ability to manufacture in this country will we find there isn't money for building highways and your job will be next? That manufacturing disappearing worries me and don't know why it wouldn't you. I don't honestly know how this will work out, the deficit worries me, but as with TARP, time will tell. With the middle class disappearing, it has impacted a lot of people and jobs. I don't think we will be ahead when this country has two classes-- rich and poor.
 

Well Rain I certainly hope that I do have to eat those words. I gladly will because that means that the President has done a good job and the economy is doing fine and good times are back. And maybe GM and Chrysler will pay the money back. Chrysler paid it back early when they got bailed out back when Iacocca was running the show. But this time it is much more money and the companies do not seem to be making big enough changes to turn things around. GM says that they sold 9 million cars in the US last year and they are "trying" to get their break-even point down to 10 million cars per year. So even if they can meet their goal they will still be losing money. And the taxpayers will be fronting them that money. Just like every year when Amtrak comes to Congress and says, "We are going to stop operations unless you give us another $5 billion." This is what GM will be doing next year and the year after that unless something changes.

I do not want those good jobs to disappear and they would not have, just like they are not going to now that GM is in Chapter 11. We make a lot of cars in this country, but they are made in Kentucky and Alabama and Tennessee. Americans still will buy cars, but this was all about saving the UAW not the car business. Do you think we should have bailed out the Steel industry back in the 70's or the Timber industry back in the 80's? I thought a lot of Americans were happy to end the environmental destruction caused by all those industries. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you want good paying manufacturing jobs then you have to have something to manufacture with. I would love to see more industry throughout the United States, but with all the water shortages, the power shortages and materials shortages and the labor costs we are our own worst enemy. As for the middle class I am not sure this is really going to help them. With all of the spending and debt, we are going to see huge inflation after the mid term elections and a big jump in interest rates. And both of those things will hurt the low and middle class far worse than anything in the last 8 years. And they will also hurt both the housing and car industries, as loans will be harder to get. All of this government intervention just seems to be making the economic problems last longer. If they would have stayed out of it, we would have tough times, but we would pull out of it. Now we have trillions more in debt and nothing really to show for it.
 

If all of our manufacturing is done by foreign countries in our country, what does that say to you? I hope it works out. Obama says this is still going to be a company run by the car makers. Time will tell. It's hard to understand why GM couldn't have done what Ford did and rethink their practices years ago. It's like our whole country is screwed and we will end up one of the third world countries with being exploited by those who come from elsewhere and take the dollars back with them.

This is not btw just about Obama. Bush was heading this same direction. Likely a lot of the Republicans whining so much now would have backed it then.

Saying that I still worry about the huge deficit. That cannot continue!

If we had to face that our industrial jobs had to take less money, would people like you who work for the government also be willing to take cuts in pay to equivalent levels? California might be forced to do that but what about other states before it reaches catastrophic levels?
 

and pensions. I don't know what it's like in California but I know people who were state employees up here and they retired at the same salary they originally had and after working maybe 30 years at the most, some 20 years. Don't we have to re-look at federal, state and local pension plans? Most industry no longer has a pension... although some does and they have to rethink it also because what can the culture really afford?
 

Since you want to make this personal. I have taken a 9.4% pay cut this year and likely will take another 5% cut next month. As for pensions the politicians approved those for government workers and in many cases agreed to better pensions and benefits instead of giving pay raises. It is all part of pay in the long run. I took a lower paying job with the state government for the security and the retirement. So far neither of those things are guaranteed at the government since the law makers can do whatever they want. If they decide to change my retirement or benefits or pay they can regardless of what our contract says and there will be no federal agency stepping in to make sure they follow the law because they make the law. And new government employees do not get the same pensions anymore. It is more like a 401k that is employee owned. Although the Democrats have talked about trying to figure out a way to get control of those. Any time there is a pot of money, the politicians will try to get it.
 

Well companies did the same thing. When my husband began work with the corporation he was with when he retired, there was a pension but then there was not and when he goes onto SS in July, something we had not planned right now, there will be no pensions. The economic situation has ended what many people thought they had and I suspect in the end that government employees will end up the same way. I don't know about other corporations but I know the one my son works for has also had to take pay cuts. A lot of life may be rearranged in these next few years and what we thought we had may not prove to be true